Posts by drew sagan

69

Questioning me as an apostate

by God_Delusion in

i am an active jw.

i was born in the "truth" (i really feel uncomfortable calling it that) and am now married to a witness.. for a year now, i have actually come to see that the gb are just business-psychologists.

anyone who views jehovah's witnesses as a religion and not a cult, really needs to evaluate their way of thinking and they also need to look up the definition of the word "cult".. anyway, my parents recently came over on holiday (they live in another country and are also residents of bethel).

drew sagan

The noah story is an ancient myth shared by many different cultures. Reading into it as a story of historical truth always appeared rather silly to me. We end up imposing our own sense of morality and justice on a tale that was told to influence and entertain people that died long ago.

Of course, when a person accepts that the story is sipmly a myth other long held assumptions are challenged (e.g. the Bible is historicaly true cover to cover).

One suggestion you may want to think about. Do you really care about the moral implications of the Noah story? It seems as though you are trying to rationalize your arguemnt for why you believe the story to be myth, without coming out an saying it. I would personally stay away from argumentation like this because it appears to make you look overly picky. I would compare your argument to another one I have heard some ex-jws use from time to time, this issue of "who will be resurrected from sodom and gomorrah". Sure the WTS has changed their position on this teaching, but does it really effect your life in a significant way? Many other Christian groups believe the Noah story is true as well, but that doesn't make them shun their family or refuse life saving medical treatment!

If I was you I would be careful not to come across as antagonistic, especially for the sake of your wife. I went through a simliar situation and can tell you that the less conversations you have with Elders the better!

9

The ladys of The View talk about the convention......BIG DEAL !!!!!!

by av8orntexas in

did anyone else receieve this email and clip from a friend ?

this was a fwd from my po from another witless.. .

from: subject:fw: witness given on the view- very insterstingdate: check out how the ladies from the show "the view" try their best to decipher the message from the 2009 "keep on the watch" district convention of jehovah's witnesses.

drew sagan

I diagree that the video is a "total ripping to shreds" of the JWs, but it still is nowhere near pro-jw.

The panelists basically poke fun at JWs in the same way most poke fun at anybody who thinks they have the goods on when the end of the world is coming. I suppose that because the one girl is now an evangelical christian she still buys into the idea that Bible texts fortell things happening in our day (e.g. nation of Israel, wars, ect). That would explain why she kept brining the subject back to how these things 'are in the bible', but would give her own explanation as to what it means.

14

BIG - USA Today, JW women 6X more likely to die from Blood Loss during childbirth

by skeeter1 in

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-06-15-jehovahs-witness_n.htm.

study: jehovah's witnesses more likely to die in childbirthstartclickprintexcludeposted

drew sagan

Women because of child birth, hysterectomies, and female issues...and black people because of sickle cell anemia. Then, it's usually the kids with luekemia or bone cancers, and people facing trauma, and major surgeries.

A major point! If this ban somehow effected middle aged white males it would have been tossed out long ago!

8

WTF i can't believe where i could had been

by bibledike in

jw
friends

i'm 22 years old still young whatever.

when i buy a pack of cigerrattes they ask for my id.

i was raised in the kingdom with an "unbelieving dad" and a pioneering mother current df and bout to be married; i hope she never steps foot in that place again although she had been thinking about it.

drew sagan

Welcome!

Glad you found your way out. Pioneering was a real eye opening event for me as well. It really made me think twice about giving my entire life to the org.

-Drew

46

"Bearing Thorough Witness" book: New light about Governing Body

by kurtbethel in

they are not your leaders!.

here it is, in print, on page 110 above the picture of "the nine".. "the governing body relies on god's holy spirit for direction.

its members do not regard themselves as the leaders of jehovah's people.

drew sagan

It's called "asserting the opposite". All sorts of people in positions of power do it all the time.

It's actually sort of amazing to think about this. Just picture a group of JWs repeating this paragraph at a book study. It just blows my mind to believe that at one time I could have been listening to this stuff and actually believed it proved a point.

In the end it's just one more thing that channels the myth that nobody but god is in charge of the org.

85

Not having a paradise earth in the future makes me sad - What about you?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

yes, i am enjoying realizing the truth about the truth.. but there is another side to it.

the world as we know it didn't seem to me to be the way that god intended it to be.

i know i was brainwashed, but it felt good believing that all the bad things would be changed.

drew sagan

Take what you have right now and enjoy it. You'll find out what's out there after you go soon enough

45

Your Opinion----What's The Worst Way To Go?

by minimus in

jw
friends

we all fear death.

nobody in their right mind wants to die.

most people say that if they have to go, it would best to have it happen while asleep.. but, in your opinion, what's the worst?.

drew sagan

Yeah, buried alive is a pretty bad one.

Buried alive in a burning coffin possibly?

161

Just my 2 Cents.......Go ahead and FLAME AWAY.....I won't reply

by scrapmama777 in

jw
friends

"inciting hatred on the basis of race, religion, gender, nationality or sexuality or other personal characteristic.".

is this seriously one of the forum's rules to follow?

how can that be so when this whole forum is based on inciting hatred towards one religion.....jehovah's witnesses.......wow this is funny!

drew sagan

Pretty interesting the way this thread has turned imo.

This board has such a wide range of diverse people on it that you simply could never really sum it up into one stereotype. Sure there are loudmouths, and they are more that welcome to hang around There are those intersted in talking about modern biblical scholarship, others in the history of the Watchtower. Most disagree with the basic premise that the Watchtower is the truth, that sure is the basic premise. But so what? We're not the ones making the claim that we have all of human history figured out. Amazing how a religion like JWs can get people to believe that there is substance to the arguemnt that nobody should debate whether their claims are true or not.

Glad you've lightened up a bit scrapmama777, look forward to seeing where it goes.

8

The Trinity Video...will JW's watch it?

by homeschool in

jw
friends

i had my extremist jw sister and her husband over the other day because i'd asked some questions regarding the new light and 'the generation'.

i've never heard her husband speak so much and i wish you could've seen how condescending they were.

"oh homeschool.....hmmmm....let me see how i can explain this so you can understand" (i was thinking 'oh boy, you have no idea').... .

drew sagan

Focusing just on the doctranal teachings of JWs is pretty much a loose/loose situation in my book. I saw the video and really was not all that impressed. The JW in the video is just going to leave that conversation, do his "research" to prove that he really is right (proving the other guy wrong), and go back to do it all over again.

It's the unquestioned assumptions that really drive me crazy. Using proof texts to back up an argument simply creates an endless opportunity for people to interpret the Bible however they want. Each book has to be taken into context. Don't put ideas on top of the Bible that just arn't there, such as the idea there is "one major theme" that runs through all the books.

57

To Fade or Not To Fade... An Opinion.....

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

just a couple of set of ground rules i would like to set for this.

frequently, one of two options for those who want to leave jw's are 1) a purposeful, public, resignation (or disassociation as jw's call it) vs 2) what is commonly called in the ex jw internet world, "the fade".

i know that emotions run deep on this subject for good reason, because of what is at stake, and all that is perceived to be lost.

drew sagan

fwiw

Individual situations vary so greatly that defining the "moral" correctness of fading is somewhat impossible. To one person fading may simply involve no longer going to the Kingdom Hall. To another person it may mean they must continue to pretend to happily go along with living a JW lifestyle.

Each person has to draw thier own line in the sand and act accordingly.

In my own personal experience me and my wife attempted a fade, but then hit a big snag. We were fading for the sake of my wifes family (her mom and sister are jws). Her mother however turned my wife into the Elders for joining the YMCA. At the time she thought she was doing Gods will, something that would help her daughter see the errors of her ways. Of course it backfired. I DA'd and she was DF'd. We're never coming back and she knows it. She really regrets her decision and realizes it was a poor one to make. Knowing what she knows now she probably never would have screwed up our fade the way she did, but that's life. Now she's rather content with my wife not being JW. Talk about irony.

I know other people that just stopped going and were hardly effected by it. There really is no standard you can depend on in situations like this.